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TriAlpha

Couple of things to note, you can't just suddenly cut spending, even defence. While I agree we need to significantly cut it down We have to use our brains and basic common sense, a significant amount of the MOD budget is for payroll. We can't suddenly layoff 200k ppl over night there are contracts and service schedules. I would like to see a complete stop of recruitment. But cutting spending will have to be done gradually over 8-10 years. We should have started scalling down our forces in 2012-2015, it's impossible to do within a year. Otherwise we are gonna have 200k more unemployed ppl in poverty overnight in the middle the biggest economic collapse we have ever seen Let's be real ppl. Use your brains On a side note, what ever spending is cut needs to be done carefully so that we don't leave any gaps in national security, we can't just take a red pen and cut randomly or we will risk another Easter Attack. Edit: since it looks like morons are assuming my post means I'm Pro Army. Just to be clear I want the army to be less than 150k and to focus more on intelligence gathering and surveillance than grunts/ground forces. I just don't see a way of doing that overnight without a planned scale down over a few years. Also the only way to cut defence spending is to lay off ppl. Payroll is a bulk of the budget, it not like we are buying warships or jets. This point isn't up for debate, only way to cut spending is to fire ppl.


[deleted]

>I would like to see a complete stop of recruitment. But cutting spending will have to be done gradually over 8-10 years. Since most of the budget goes to wages, it doesn't need to take that long. 20K people discharged every year for 5 years would do. 100K army is more than enough for us. >Otherwise we are gonna have 200k more unemployed ppl in poverty overnight in the middle the biggest economic collapse we have ever seen That is not a bad thing actually. If they are removed from the army they can participate in productive work. The problem is having 100K all at once. We need to do it slowly.


SeaInteraction2314

Hiring has been frozen in these days even in top companies. It's so unrealistic to think that at least 1k unemployed people overnight, would find new jobs. What do you expect if these armed youth who especially joined the military to help their families will do if they were suddenly kicked out ?


AdhesivenessOwn7747

In fact top companies are even laying people off these days, specially in sectors like construction. Getting hired even for qualified people is so hard and will get harder now that the government is planning to retire government workers and reduce hiring into government jobs. People are so idealistic sometimes smh. That said, why they need a 14% increase in defense budget is questionable. I understand not being able to cut expenses but INCREASING by such a large margin unless they are planning to hire more or drastically increase wages is not justifiable. If they are hiring more, that needs to be criticized and if they are increasing wages of the forces without increasing wages of other government workers is also questionable.


madmax3

Cutting could have started after the war ended (not right after obviously), I'm actually amazed this comment has this many upvotes considering this sub usually is better informed than Twitter/FB, but for context and to address every pro-army point in this thread: * No one is asking to completely disband the military or to remove 200k people overnight, we are simply asking for a less militarized country and **we haven't got close to even starting on that** * When people say our GDP:Military ratio is normal they completely miss out GDP:Military:Health:Education in comparison to other countries. In SL our GDP:Education usually hovers around 1.5%-3%. In India its 16.5%, in the UK its 13.7%, even the shit public education of the militarized US is at 6.2%. Our country spends money on armed men but less money on health, education and food security - something that should have been increased this year NOT defence budget. How can you argue that we should tread carefully on the defense budget when 50% of our country is skipping meals? We should scrutinize the military more if anything to justify their great expense, not be even more placatey with the least among us. * Like you said, they can freeze new recruits, this is a no-brainer that they haven't done, why not? * On top of that there are multiple solutions, its not that we don't have solutions its that the govt prefers a militarized state. The govt can factually slowly move newer recruits to more productive and vocational jobs, yeah no shit they'll have trouble doing it now but a) why didn't they do it in the last 10 years and b) how is putting them in the army going to help?? That's basically tax-paid benefits for armed unemployed people. It doesn't change the fact that we have a large amount of not only unproductive men but now armed men willing to obey the govt at all costs. If you argue that the govt job sector is already bloated, YES agreed, the problems are very much inter-connected and the govt should have pushed for more productive industries in general but opted for a militarized one * The army has increased in size [since 2014](https://www.macrotrends.net/countries/LKA/sri-lanka/military-army-size) (getting more sources for this is tricky since some need payment but this is the world bank so its good enough) despite no actual need for more army personnel * Despite a bigger army and a very well maintained budget they failed to solve the Easter Attacks, its ironic you bring up the Easter Attacks as if the SL army didn't completely fail in defending us from that * The army in general in terms of value and production is a net negative, I don't have hard sources for this but feel free to debate me if you think I'm wrong. Since the war ended they failed to protect the country and 2/3rd of the army are actively used to bully about 5%-10% of our population in the North. (who are tax paying citizens who actually contribute fyi), the army contributes to the brain drain because most smart people don't want to live in a militarized state that might kill them for no good reason and in a country that rewards its more violent citizens over its smarter ones. The best I saw the army do in the last 10 years was occasionally help when there was flooding, even one time for that they managed to crash a chopper which is unbelievably stupid if you know how tough military training is supposed to be. I'm a cadet (or was) with family in the military, I respect the unit of the army and the idea of it and it's redundant to blame individual soldiers, however, the current SL army is frankly a disgrace to the unit and a joke, mostly full of 20 yr olds who weren't even in a war so why should we placate them? They are servants TO US and have failed in their duty. Before all you bayyas get mad at me, I've met plenty of veteran soldiers begging on the streets, some of whom I've protested with, you guys say you support the army but where is the support for our vets? Its support for a blind ideology with no basis in facts


TriAlpha

>Cutting could have started after the war ended (not right after obviously), I agree, I pretty much stated this in my comment (2012-2015) >No one is asking to completely disband the military or to remove 200k people overnight, we are simply asking for a less militarized country. If ppl are asking for a drastic cut of more than 10bil from the defence budget then that would require significant layoffs. Which is what several others in the comments want. Ppl don't realise the bureaucracy and consequences. Look I'm not saying this budget is good by any means. I was responding to the comments that what to make rash decisions without thinking of the consequences. A massive influx of unskilled and generally undesired labour will have a significant and unexpected impact on the whole country. Let's just use our brains and do it. >its ironic you bring up the Easter Attacks as if the SL army didn't completely fail in defending us from that Lol you seem to think I'm Pro Army, I'm not I'm Pro Common Sense and Pro Critical thinking. I'm all for defunding the army, but let's use some critical thinking when doing so. If some ppl in the comments were the Defence Minister they would just cut the first 5 thousand line items on the budget without even reading it. We need to scale down our ground forces and focus on intelligence gathering and surveillance which is what most countries do after a war. >Before all you bayyas get mad at me Stop assuming everyone that disagrees with you automatically agrees with the opposite. The world isn't binary/black and white. Things are complex. This Aragalaya mentality of your either with us or against us is exactly why the protest failed.


madmax3

>Lol you see to think I'm Pro Army, I'm not I'm Pro Common Sense and Pro Critical thinking. What common sense exactly? You've addressed one point I mentioned and completely disregarded the context and other points. I can't debate with someone who makes obvious strawmans. I applaud impartial thinkers but you've been critically skeptical of the Aragalaya from the start while passively showing pro-govt bias despite it being common sense that the govt of SL is a failure. You tried justifying the size of the army and its budget because of the Easter Attacks then try deflecting it when you realize they failed with that also. If you're pro critical thinking then what's the logic behind giving more money to an institution that was already adequately (if not more than) funded to handle the Easter Attacks yet still failed? Shouldn't we scrutinize their capabilities instead of rewarding them more? The only point you make, despite all your pseudo-intellectualism, is that we need to placate army guys because we're in a crisis as if the entire population a) isn't in a crisis, b) aren't the ones paying for the army and c) weren't just complaining about the army in the last few months. The point of the topic is to justify the **increased** budget for the military, but you're making it out like we're already halfway in to firing half our army, which is a strawman because it isn't true and re-enforces this whole "well it'd be nice but we can't do it this way" mentality. ​ >Stop assuming everyone that disagrees with you automatically agrees with the opposite. The world isn't binary/black and white. Things are complex. > >This Aragalaya mentality of your either with us or against us is exactly why the protest failed. Way to read out of context yet again lol. The mentality of govt apologists is quite literally why the protest failed also (the post-Gota part anyway, not the part where we got him out), we were this close to actually making true reforms and progress but it was govt apologist and Ranilists who slowed everything down


TriAlpha

>You tried justifying the size of the army and its budget because of the Easter Attacks then try deflecting it when you realize they failed with that also Your a dumbass if you think im pro government. just look at my post and comment history moron. Easter Attacks was a side note as stated in the original post and I included it because I saw first hand what it's effect was on friends affected. I'm anti government and Anti Aragalaya because they both are only in it for their own self-interests. >What common sense exactly? Several ppl in the comments have asked significant cuts, how would you propose to reduce the budget which allocates a majority to payroll ? It's not like we are buying jets or warships. The only real way to cut down spending is to lay off ppl. Laying off ppl would cost us tens of billions in early severance and would put tens of thousands uneducated and skilled ppl into the economy. What are you gonna do with them, its a significant majority won't find a job. Which means more ppl depending on subsidies and means more ppl on pensions. That's means more funding to the on subsidies and pensions funds. For most soldiers the pension is about 50%of salary so at the end of day your just shifting the money from defence to welfare (which doesn't change anything from a fiscal perspective) Unless there is a plan to create more jobs in the economy for them So how do you plan to address these issues ? That's what I mean by common sense. > we need to placate army guys Lol when did I say that ? If you can give solutions to the above points let's fire them all rn. But without a plan you can't cut the budget overnight by any meaningful number . It needs to be a phased scale down.


LaughExcellent8329

Damn coming from a military family and accepting that the army is just there in the north to bully people is something I didn't expect.


madmax3

Yep, our active military is currently larger than Ukraine's - a country that is at war with Russia (a superpower). Along with the increased defence budget, a lot of people don't realize that the president's office alone has some $1 million (USD) budget which is frankly absurd and unnecessary for a PM in SL, especially now. I believe health spending dropped from last year and food security budget also dropped despite some 50% of our country skipping meals. I truly believe the govt intends to keep SL as dictatorial and limited in power as possible, there is no incentive at all for them to improve SL yet many reasons and encouragements for them to continue what they're doing. It is far easier to control a country and steal its resources if you employ most of its men as armed thugs who blindly follow orders.


Less-Doughnut7686

Why should the govt change when we keep voting for the same exact thing? By the next election cycle all the govt has to do it spend a tiny amount to improve things for 3 months and everyone's voting for them again. Sri lanka will stay the exact same until the people change. The people will never change because our immigration is horrible (people don't migrate to SL) immigration would bring people with differing viewpoints. And most people migrating out of SL have 0 incentive to ever come back meaning the actual progressive ones leave to never come back, leaving behind the same old mindset. They also take their families with them. The main reason this happens, aside from the multitude of reasons like corruption, suppression and archaic laws is the fact that we have no attractive qualities for skilled labour, the main export is garments, tea (lost that market with covid) and tourism. SL will remain the way it is, best is to migrate and live a better life elsewhere. Edit: even if we take a country like the US which is poked fun at for having a disproportionately large defense budget. Their social welfare and medicare budget is still higher than their defense budget -------------------------- Spending on the military is about $800B which is substantially less than just Social Security, not to mention Medicare and Medicaid. This is public info you don’t have to take my word for it. https://fiscaldata.treasury.gov/federal-spending/


TheArtistofChaos

I don't think there's a need for speculation - it's just too obvious. Also, keeping the population hungry, working their lives away for the next meal leaves no time to protest. I personally don't know anyone in the forces or the police but I'm really curious as to how their conscious works around this shit


[deleted]

>Also, keeping the population hungry, working their lives away for the next meal leaves no time to protest. Isn't that every governments' goal? >I personally don't know anyone in the forces or the police but I'm really curious as to how their conscious works around this shit Most of them has a huge ego and 'respect my authority' attitude.


isheanacho

>Isn't that every governments' goal? Not in most countries, they have other means of distracting the population but this is one of the few countries that actively starved its people through idiotic policies.


[deleted]

Ukraine has a lower active military but they have a 5 times more military personal along with the reserve military force.


ManagementOnly1326

Ridiculous. A military budget that size is highly unnecessary when this country is not at war


[deleted]

I wouldn't say the budget is unnecessary. It's like 2% of the GDP, pretty standard across countries. What we need to change is what we spend on. Most of the budget goes to salaries and pensions rather than equipment, and we have old equipment. The size of the army should be reduced to around 100K imo.


RedditttName

That is the treat for army and police for being spineless dogs, who wags tales for their masters command and bite innocent people


[deleted]

[удалено]


SeaInteraction2314

Some people just bash at everything they don't agree with, without any rationale. Can't comment much about Police, but military has been very resistant to unleash unnecessary violence on protesters unless being ordered directly, especially considering how armed they are as opposed to police who act with very low discipline.


[deleted]

You are right, but that's a bit insensitive. Shaming people won't solve problems. And, we've forgotten the terrors of war too quickly. Those 'spineless dogs, who wags tales for their masters' did win the war.


AggressivePoet2

In war, whichever side may call itself the **victor**, there are no winners, but all are losers.


[deleted]

I agree. I think 'finish' is a more suitable word.


madmax3

Most of the present army were barely teenagers when the war ended lol Also it was a war that we the Sinhalese started, it wasn't an honourable "victory" by any stretch and to this day we still bully tax paying citizens in the North with our tax-paid military. Respect to the vets that lost their lives and still live with disabilities today but we should acknowledge the reality of the war too.


[deleted]

> Most of the present army were barely teenagers when the war ended lol Not really. Army still has a lot of war veterans. and there is still a lot of compensation for war widows, veterans and injured soldiers. >Also it was a war that we the Sinhalese started, it wasn't an honourable "victory" by any stretch and to this day we still bully tax paying citizens in the North with our tax-paid military. Respect to the vets that lost their lives and still live with disabilities today but we should acknowledge the reality of the war too. I didn't deny any of that. No victory in any war is honourable.


SriLankanThrowAway

How else do you think they will keep down the poor Sinhalese, the Tamils, and the Muslims all at once?


Nameless11911

Some folks love Ranil! He’s destroying the country in the same rajapaksa style


twd_2003

For once I support the SJB antics in parliament. I was actually hopeful for this budget but it’s more of the same old with a few commissions set up to look into reform instead of committing to deep cuts where necessary


AyatolahBromeini

Ranil's lips always looks like a butthole. Now we know why


SomewhereMajestic642

Makes we wonder as to if the increase in defense budget was to make more commission on purchasing equipment rather than to actually improve defense.


[deleted]

Nope. Most of the Sri Lankan budgets goes to salaries and pensions.


Fit_Bread_8760

Last year rupee was 200 you cant blame for that 14 percent,and how do you think a country manage army of 300k most of money goes to pentions and salaries of army personals its not like we upgrade our army


dinoxoko

You do realize you can discharge like half of the active personal


Fit_Bread_8760

What about their families you cant just discharge them you need to reduce new replacements without damaging the quality of the army and we are a country who gives pention when the owner dies their wifes can get the pention too.


dinoxoko

Well their families will have to find a way to earn like how every other family does. Plus usually discharging is done with a severance package. With respect to the pension, they can always be entitled to it depending on their years of service since that will determine how much they contributed to the pension fund.


[deleted]

>Plus usually discharging is done with a severance package With respect to the pension That defeats the purpose most of the budget goes to salary and pension. The government can't afford to give out salaries or pensions all at once like that.


Fit_Bread_8760

Do you think sri lanka has job market for that amount of people suddenly.Only thing government can reduce Recruitments for army personal and reduce the army. How are you suggesting for 40 year old to find a job suddenly you can say youth can find jobs but what about others you cant destroy their entire life plans suddenly


twd_2003

So you would prefer to pay for their continued sustenance instead of your money being used productively?


Fit_Bread_8760

You cant blame all on army yes i would prefer to pay for their contuniued sustenance military service should be respected because money or not they are there to protect .its government job to protect .look at at india their highest allocated funds are for defence budget after paying interests .government need find ways expand economy and earn money cutting defence budget doesnt resolve anything


twd_2003

Fuck them. In peacetime their main tasks seem to be harassing minorities and carrying out tasks for the politically connected. Be pragmatic; it’s been over a decade since the war ended. It’s well past due time to demilitarize.


Fit_Bread_8760

Onlything army can do is following orders tell me about a army who made its dicitions.dont remember any natural disasters they are the ones who does the resque part.Are from another planet.Tell a single incident where army harassed minorities after war


twd_2003

Following orders is literally the defense that the Nazis used. Sure they do a valuable service in natural disasters but given that many other countries can respond effectively to natural disasters without having a massive army that seems to indicate that we can too. Perhaps if a significant number of them were placed in reserves instead of the standing army and activated regionally in times of disaster, that would cut a lot of costs without crippling our disaster response. https://www.hrw.org/news/2022/01/13/sri-lanka-minorities-activists-targeted


[deleted]

Firing people won't solve the problem. Just stop hiring people for few more years. And, what do you think will happen if 300K people goes hungry overnight? be a bit realistic.


twd_2003

Well yeah obviously I don’t want them to fire half of the military + civil service immediately. But they didn’t even commit to hiring freezes and a gradual transition of these people to the private sector, which is what I did want


[deleted]

>gradual transition of these people to the private sector, which is what I did want Exactly, 200K people in the army are people that could participate in economic employment.


TriAlpha

Most military personal are on service contracts for 5-10 years. Breaking those contracts will costs tens of billions more. A majority of the MOD budget goes to payroll already. Let's say the government decided to break the contracts of 200k soldiers and pay the massive severance. That would cost probably cost double the budget and would mean more ppl claim pensions so we would need to increase the pension fund with the same money that you would save my suddenly laying off 200k. (We'd end up spending and losing more money than saving) In addition, 200k ppl who only know how to shoot and kill and can't do anything else will have very few jobs in the private sector. These 200k ppl will be below the poverty line and require massive subsidies to support and if that support isn't enough some of them will turn to crime as an alternative. This is a complex issue that you don't seem to fully understand nor grasp the scale of. Use your brain This can't be done in 1 year it will take at a minimum 5 years to scale down the army. We should have started back in 2012 or 2015 when the war ended


[deleted]

That's an extremely out of touch and insensitive answer. We need to stop hiring more people. Not make a around 300K people hungry at once.


[deleted]

Isn't it a decrease compared with the USD? Most of that money goes into personal salaries and pensions. There are lot of wounded soldiers and war widows in Sri Lanka.